Saudis and allies bomb Yemen

[Getitrt2]

admin, what they are saying does not belong here and adds no value re. IOC is the political argument of Bush vs. Obama, and they are right. That's what you should not be "allowing".

[my2cows]

Well, not entirely, since there is considerable impact from actual (or potential) Middle East trouble on the oil price, I'll allow one thread to discuss that for those who like, since the ones who aren't interested simply have the option of not reading the thread.

But keep it to this single thread please.

Wasn't trying to dive to far off the deep end into this conversation, just pointing out ISIS ( most like Islamic teaching/history ), has the stated goal of over taking mecca and medina and if/when that happens the world, specifically as it relates to oil is changed forever. The US, and most western governments have a frie-nemy relationship with a family dictatorship and the success of ISIS in Syria and Iraq is emboldening Sunni Muslims and inflating their ranks.

The House of Saud, imo, has been playing a very dangerous game the last 30 years and how it ends up is still very much up in the air. Their hypocritically repressing jihad/Islam inside the country and their promotion of it outside the county is not lost on Sunni groups such as ISIS.

The USA is also playing a very dangerous game… Allow Saudi Arabia to fund construction of Mosques in the US, send teaching materials to said mosques, and going so far as to send imam’s to the US for EID prayers in major US cities is reckless policy, but it maintains the status quo relationship we have with the Saudi government.

This frie-nemy relationship is going to be strained further if ISIS isn’t completely stopped…. According to recent news, SA is going to be sending troops into Yemen along with Egypt and if they are successful in squashing the Jihad there, oil market will breath a sigh of relief and probably fall.

If they are not and ISIS continues to gain ground and pull in other Muslims to Jihad….A lot of things are going to change, first and foremost, the price of oil.

Pointing out both Democrats and Republicans have supported Islamic groups in the past was went to be apolitical.

[admin]

As long as it doesn't disintegrate into a Bush versus Obama blame type political discussion I have no problem allowing this in one thread

[Thylacine-2]

Well, not entirely, since there is considerable impact from actual (or potential) Middle East trouble on the oil price, I'll allow one thread to discuss that for those who like, since the ones who aren't interested simply have the option of not reading the thread.

But keep it to this single thread please.

Wasn't trying to dive to far off the deep end into this conversation, just pointing out ISIS ( most like Islamic teaching/history ), has the stated goal of over taking mecca and medina and if/when that happens the world, specifically as it relates to oil is changed forever. The US, and most western governments have a frie-nemy relationship with a family dictatorship and the success of ISIS in Syria and Iraq is emboldening Sunni Muslims and inflating their ranks.

The House of Saud, imo, has been playing a very dangerous game the last 30 years and how it ends up is still very much up in the air. Their hypocritically repressing jihad/Islam inside the country and their promotion of it outside the county is not lost on Sunni groups such as ISIS.

The USA is also playing a very dangerous game… Allow Saudi Arabia to fund construction of Mosques in the US, send teaching materials to said mosques, and going so far as to send imam’s to the US for EID prayers in major US cities is reckless policy, but it maintains the status quo relationship we have with the Saudi government.

This frie-nemy relationship is going to be strained further if ISIS isn’t completely stopped…. According to recent news, SA is going to be sending troops into Yemen along with Egypt and if they are successful in squashing the Jihad there, oil market will breath a sigh of relief and probably fall.

If they are not and ISIS continues to gain ground and pull in other Muslims to Jihad….A lot of things are going to change, first and foremost, the price of oil.

Pointing out both Democrats and Republicans have supported Islamic groups in the past was went to be apolitical.

My2cows, are we clear about the fact that the Houthi in Yemen are not Jihadist?  The Houthi tribesmen are somewhat reformist Shia, as are the Shia militants the Saudis suppress in Bahrain, and they (the Houthi) are allied with the previous authoritarian president of Yemen (deposed in Arab Spring) , who is trying to regain power from the present largely defeated authoritarian president who is allied with the Saudis.

The Houthi are fierce and successful enemies of ISIS and a large part of their recent militancy evolved in conflict with ISIS. Just the other day ISIS retaliated against the Houthi by bombing a couple of Houthi mosques, killing a couple of hundred people.

It's all rather complicated but the Saudi suppression of the Houthi will likely open the door wider for ISIS in Yemen.

[ArtM72]

Well, not entirely, since there is considerable impact from actual (or potential) Middle East trouble on the oil price, I'll allow one thread to discuss that for those who like, since the ones who aren't interested simply have the option of not reading the thread.

But keep it to this single thread please.

Wasn't trying to dive to far off the deep end into this conversation, just pointing out ISIS ( most like Islamic teaching/history ), has the stated goal of over taking mecca and medina and if/when that happens the world, specifically as it relates to oil is changed forever. The US, and most western governments have a frie-nemy relationship with a family dictatorship and the success of ISIS in Syria and Iraq is emboldening Sunni Muslims and inflating their ranks.

The House of Saud, imo, has been playing a very dangerous game the last 30 years and how it ends up is still very much up in the air. Their hypocritically repressing jihad/Islam inside the country and their promotion of it outside the county is not lost on Sunni groups such as ISIS.

The USA is also playing a very dangerous game… Allow Saudi Arabia to fund construction of Mosques in the US, send teaching materials to said mosques, and going so far as to send imam’s to the US for EID prayers in major US cities is reckless policy, but it maintains the status quo relationship we have with the Saudi government.

This frie-nemy relationship is going to be strained further if ISIS isn’t completely stopped…. According to recent news, SA is going to be sending troops into Yemen along with Egypt and if they are successful in squashing the Jihad there, oil market will breath a sigh of relief and probably fall.

If they are not and ISIS continues to gain ground and pull in other Muslims to Jihad….A lot of things are going to change, first and foremost, the price of oil.

Pointing out both Democrats and Republicans have supported Islamic groups in the past was went to be apolitical.

So long as this thread is allowed to continue ...I certainly didn't see Cow's post as Obama v Bush so much as I saw it as anti-Islam.  One only need to go back a few decades to see this same problem between the Catholics and Protestants in northern Ireland.  The difference here is of course the amount of firepower afforded the several factions, firepower which we in large part are responsible for providing.  (Not overlooking the importance of oil to the western world).

The fact that Saudis provide support for the construction of Mosques in the United States is no different than American religious orders and the Vatican building churches in every nations on Earth.  Firebombing black churches in the south by otherwise "Christian" people isn't a whole lot different than one Islamic order blowing up the mosque of another.  How you view these realities is only a matter of perspective, knowlege of history and tolerance of one's own hypocracy.  Far, far too many wars and assaults on mankind have been waged in the name of God.  You didn't hear that here first.

The Middle East contains many cultural ideosyncracies that we may look on as backward if not barbaric.  Women can't drive?  Can't vote?  Can't school? forced into arranged marriages?  We certainly don't have to look back too far back in history to see these very same practises on our own shores.  Many of their echos are heard today.

Finally, and this was alluded to earlier, radicals from many of these factions have either been at war or under tentative truce for a very, very long time.  To suggest that the United States, much less any President, has the power to change such history is an extraordinary display of hubris.  That is not to say the US should abandon its fight with ISIS or turn its back on the Middle East.  That is only to say US policy must, in order to have any positive effect, recognize the US has very real limitations.  Unfortunately, in my opinion, there are powerful people here in the US with very large voices who state otherwise.  We are left to understand why they believe what they do.  I see three principle reasons: either 1. because they are terribly misinformed, 2. are simply stupid or 3. they have personal agendas requiring  such hubris be displayed.

Off the soap box.

[my2cows]

My2cows, are we clear about the fact that the Houthi in Yemen are not Jihadist?

yes... add the third element to this fight. I have to say from the outset I have 15 years inside Sunni Islam, and know only that the division of Sunni/Shia happened at the time of death of Mohammad and who should take over has the leader of the Islamic caliphate, and that the major differences originate in the Hadith/Sunnah books they follow. Imo, the house of Saud has for the last decade used Yemen as a buffer zone and you may be correct in Saudi Arabia's actually helping ISIS by fighting in Yemen now.. Damned if they do and damned if they don't fight. The commited usually win, and to me that means ISIS (or another Sunni group by another name) is eventually going to be knocking on Mecca's door and to me be feels like they are building in strength.

[my2cows]

Yes... anti-islam as much as I would have been anti-nazi. Trying to compare early American history (not based on Christian teaching) to the Quran (supposedly the word of word), Hadith/Sunah (sayings and doings of Muhammad )… is a very inaccurate understanding of history and one which has led us directly into our inability to comprehend the problem we face now. Nether Catholics OR protestant understand that Jesus was a warrior who spread Christianity through war and terror whereas both Shia and Sunni divisions absolutely agree on several very disturbing things regarding human life… things which are diametrically opposed to democracy. Which is why the Shia version in Iran refers to Israel as the little satan and the US and the great satan, and the Sunni version expressed via ISIS and the Muslim Brotherhood states the islamic flag will be flown over the white house. But go ahead and draw your inaccurate comparisons and continuously wonder why our policies never pan out.

[Palm]

"Nether Catholics OR protestant understand......." According to who and whose understanding? Getting a bit outside the lines with statements/assumptions.

[AU74]

"Nether Catholics OR protestant understand......." According to who and whose understanding? Getting a bit outside the lines with statements/assumptions.

This is exactly why this type of discussion is pointless on a board about investing in a stock. But as long as we are at it:

In my opinion, my2cows conveniently absolves Christian misdeeds by drawing arbitrary distinctions between historical time periods and by cherrypicking the various religious dogmas.  Not sure what having "15 years inside Sunni Islam" means or has to do with it.  There are, no doubt, hundreds of millions of peace-loving Muslims in the world who would beg to differ with my2cows analysis and could make just as strong a case, in the opposite direction, complete with doom and gloom about Christians wanting to take over their world.  Many of  them have probably even lived among Christians for 15+ years.

[my2cows]

[quote='Palm' pid='56494' dateline='1427402926']

There are, no doubt, hundreds of millions of peace-loving Muslims in the world who would beg to differ with my2cows analysis

Be sure, any Muslim who differs in opinion of ISIS is not doing so on religious basis. Most Muslims, even the ones that seem most devout, have only read the Quran in Arabic and only know it by sounds…. With no understanding of Islam itself… So yes, there are millions of PEOPLE who consider themselves muslim, and without a doubt come across as nice people but they should not be mistaken as Islam. I’m VERY sure there were Germans during WWII who were great people who also belonged to the nazi party. That didn’t make the belief’s of the Nazi party any less evil. This is exactly the type of mind numbing effect multiculturalism has had on most westerners. I'll just leave this thread alone for a bit, but be sure... ISIS or whatever western media wants to call Sunni Jihad's next is going to be creating havoc for a very long time... or at least until we as a society can identify it. When they are attempting to overtake the Saudi oil fields and your paying 10 dollar per gallon in gas, or when they start fly planes into building(opps, that already happened) maybe you'll get the gravity of the problem.... maybe not. western dogma, is hard to overcome. (all people are the same, all religions are too)... puke!

and for those who don;t know their history, out first armed forced during Jefferson were created to fight muslims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War