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Tailings
#1

Two weeks ago a tailings dam broke in Brazil.  Lots of environmental damage... BHP faces billions in damages.    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/19/bhp-faces-billions-in-compensation-after-mine-dam-collapse-say-protesters

Does anyone here think that the Environmental Crowd will give an inch?  Nautilus' mines will have very minimal tailings if any.

Sometimes it seems that they (activists) have nothing better to do than to complain.  I've never heard of them actually adding anything constructive to a debate... just negative -- no -- no -- no -- bad -- bad -- bad -- you can't -- you can't -- you can't.  All the while, using modern technology and conveniences.

From all that I've seen and read, Nautilus has proven that the environment is very high on their list of concerns.  They are proactively working to ensure safe, clean, affordable ore.

If you are not a member of the Enviro-Church-Du-Jour then they will crucify you as a heretic.  It cracks me up when I hear how science is 'objective'.  It's a belief system like any other that depends on who is paying the grant money, who is up for tenure, what part of the political spectrum the researcher sits, etc.  Do you think ole "TED" is going to offer an equal opportunity to someone opposed to Cardinal Van Dover?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZegQYgygdw

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#2

Eh.....I agree and disagree.... Just like in every other aspect of life, there are and will always be extremists, and people to whom no logical arguments or evidence can sway their belief and/or opinion. Many of the extreme environmentalists fall into this category. But these people should not be lumped into a broad ranging category that includes "scientists" (who I assume you're referring to when you mention grant money/tenure/researcher).

Science is objective, that should be clear as day. The insinuations, conjectures, and arguments non-scientists draw from the scientifically proposed hypotheses and conclusions is extremely subjective. 99.9% of the time, it's not the researchers/scientists who make these subjective arguments. It's is almost always, the lay person, politician, or for this argument, the environmentalists. The thought that a researcher's academic standing (tenure track standing), or funding ( application for grant money) sways them to politicize or frame their scientific work towards one shade of the spectrum or another is frankly, insulting. Does it happen, sure--maybe rarely--but it is in no way the norm, and would not be tolerated by most peers or funding agency when done.

The difference between someone in the pro-Nautilus mining community, and someone who is anti-Nautilus and in the scientific community is a difference of priorities and valuation. Many in the scientific world value the potential unknown discoveries at these relatively unknown (and briefly studied) locations more than they do the known material and economic gain obtained from mining them. This isnt everyone though, and there are people like me, who are in the academic world but still support Nautilus. (I have multiple MS's as well as a PhD in geology/geophysics/oceanography).

I think the best comment on the subject is from that article seabed posted the other day, where Cindy van Dover from Duke University said; "I really do think we need to understand what we might lose,” van Dover says. “The cumulative impacts are what’s really hard. Solwara-1, yes, go ahead and mine S-1, and let’s see what happens. But what about the next one? What’s the tipping point? How many of these sites could you destroy? And at what tempo, before it doesn’t come back? I think S-1 would come back if nothing else is touched. If you touch something else in that basin, how much is too much? Two? I don’t know.”"

It's naive to think that while Nautilus may be initially very aware and conscience of minimizing the environmental damage, all other companies would follow a similar path. As you started this article with, all we have to do is look at conventional land mining to see how negligent and destructive big mining can be.

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#3
"The thought that a researcher's academic standing (tenure track standing), or funding ( application for grant money) sways them to politicize or frame their scientific work towards one shade of the spectrum or another is frankly, insulting"

If you are insulted then it seems I've tread upon one of your strongly held beliefs. If it wasn't a belief and was some kind of universal truth then it would be impossible to be insulted. To think that data (and the method for how it is gathered which also has a huge impact on the actual data) isn't swayed by the observer/researcher is not realistic. Even if a person is not conscience of their bias, it's still there. We are all human and all have subjective experiences and observations even when we try to be objective. It's impossible to keep your priorities and valuations out of picking what data to gather, how to gather it and what that data means. Scientists don't get a free-pass on this -- most especially with charged or contentious ideas.

I've been reading Cindy's opinions for six years or so now. Years ago I even tried asking her to substantiate some of her opinions as quoted in articles when Nautilus first obtained the mining permit... she never got back with me LOL. She definitely has an opinion... dare say agenda... in regards to subsea mining.

Many scientists from many universities and institutions around the world have looked at Nautilus' plans. These are top of the line institutions like Scripps and WHOI and none of them are wailing and gnashing their teeth like Cindy is. Seems that she is trying to become known as being THE anti-subsea mining scientist. Appears to be working if she's getting a TED invitation. She can probably make a good career and live off a nice retirement for this stance alone. I'm not saying she is always overtly bashing with a club but, she has a steady drum-beat of negativity (along with a some club-bashing). I've never once heard her say, "yes, but if you do this or that, it may have a better result on the environment." She advocates putting whole concept on hold until some vague time in the future when everything is proved out!?

By the way, “The cumulative impacts are what’s really hard. Solwara-1, yes, go ahead and mine S-1, and let’s see what happens. But what about the next one? What’s the tipping point? How many of these sites could you destroy? And at what tempo, before it doesn’t come back? I think S-1 would come back if nothing else is touched. If you touch something else in that basin, how much is too much? Two? I don’t know.” is pretty new stuff. I guess she's consigning herself to the inevitable now. Notice how she doesn't say the tipping point of what. Just the scary bogey man of "The Tipping Point". It couldn't be the tipping point of the collapse of the small local ecosystem... since it's already been established that those areas would be reseeded after mining. I guess she missed that part of Nautilus' plan. Also, notice that she forgets to mention that the size of the mining sites, like most hydro-thermal vent areas, are on the order of football fields when the entire "basin" is thousands of square miles -- vast differences in scale. So, for her to say, "Two? I don't know." though subtle, is wickedly biased and is designed to push an opinion/agenda.

As for the other companies to follow, being first to market, Nautilus is able to create the best practices. Governing bodies will hold new comers to the best practices and will adapt as time goes on. Nautilus is setting a high bar right from the beginning. They're not going in like cowboys and hoping to 'get away' with something until the laws catch up. They are going into this transparently so that the governing bodies are up-to-speed from the beginning.

IMO, the scientific community is going to get enormous access to these areas of the ocean through the subsea mining that they wouldn't otherwise. The vehicles will be down there and the scientists will be able to get lots of real-time data from them. Currently it is crazy expensive to mount expeditions to these areas and even then, there's a relatively short amount of time allotted to research. Ship and ROV time 'aint cheap. I have little doubt that scientific data collection and monitoring equipment will be mandated near active vents. The sheer amount of data will require many many scientists to study.
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#4

'seascandive' pid='64802' datel Wrote:

Two weeks ago a tailings dam broke in Brazil.  Lots of environmental damage... BHP faces billions in damages.    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/19/bhp-faces-billions-in-compensation-after-mine-dam-collapse-say-protesters

Does anyone here think that the Environmental Crowd will give an inch?  Nautilus' mines will have very minimal tailings if any.

  • Nautilus agreed to sell ~1.1 million tonnes of material from Solwara 1 to Chinese copper smelter Tongling  

  • 1.1 million tonnes per annum (+/- 20%) of Solwara 1 material for a period of three years on a take or pay basis 

  • Price based on of copper concentrate and market conditions  

  • Further value via 50/50 profit share for residual material, gold pyrite, masonry material, etc

As SSD notes, the Sol 1 ore is so valuable virtually all of it will be utilized not only avoiding environmental damage but making additional profit in the process.
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